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submitted 18 hours ago by schizoidman@lemmy.zip to c/europe@feddit.org

She said the commission should introduce more flexible carbon dioxide emission limits and adjustment mechanisms so that carmakers could help shape the industry's transition.

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[-] madnificent@lemmy.world 7 points 15 hours ago

As a neighbour, I'd like to thank you for helping EU production of BEV and making people believe in it.

Germans are so hard on Germany. I only hear negativity online from Germans.

Maybe you can start building from what you already have? Working from the ground up is what the rich like because it means accepting worse worker conditions. Don't fall for that trap.

I honestly think German car manufacturers have done their fair share when looking at manufacturers with heritage. Almost no one did as much!

BMW made the i3 at the time of the Tesla Model S. It was rushed, too expensive to produce, but it was good for its time. It is still a blast to drive! It is light on its feet with a great chassis. They made the i8 in tandem which helped make electric cool and accepted from a driver's car perspective. The iX is fugly but it's apparently amingst the most comfortable cars. It wasn't a financial success and BMW took a different route after but their electric cars are good driver cars for today's abysmal standards.

Mercedes created a whole separate platform for electric cars. If you look at the EQS prototypes you'll see that it was gorgeous. The production car is great but very very ugly. People believed Mercedes was going to go fully electric whether Mercedes meant it or not. Their offering after rebates of the EQB was cost-effective when compared to the Ioniq 5. That is a lot of car, great! It alsl sold a lot of those. Innovation on the CLA means it's very frugal. Mercedes did its part.

These are expensive cars, sure. But some have sold a lot and they moved the industry.

VW publicly turned around their whole company. They didn't sell but they made everyone believe that they were buying their last combustion engine car. That is a hige driver in today's market. The roof workers here were laughing when one of them said "I'll never drive electric" because they were sure there would be no other option. That is a big change. Execution of the ID3 was bad, but no one complained when Ford used the exact same steering wheel in their cars. The electric Porches seemed to sell well to an audience that really wanted to hear the flat six. The Audi etron took the market of rich people who wanted to drive electric but did not want to be seen as such. VW was dragged through the mud for the emisions scandal that everyone in the industry was participating in.

The Germans made BEV feel premium and the future we should all long for. Milking that market failed and backfired.

Compared to KIA and Hyundai that's not impressive, they executed better coming from a lower positioned brand and making it more chique. Ford created a model 3 clone with the Mach E. That's ok but not great. Attaching the Mustang name to it made people believe Ford found this to be important. They didn't move it as far as Mercedes, BMW, VW at all. Their EU BEV offering was essentially based on VW's chassis 2 years ago? Maybe still today? They failed at producing the F150 lightning. They did net up a new team and were publicly struggling to re-school their engine designers to stay relevant. Most US based manufacturers seem to have missed the mark. The Nissan Leaf made great progress but was not as technologically sound as the i3, many leafs of the day don't work anymore. They were dull and for people who cared about the environment, not for people who cared about car culture (whether we like it or not, it's a thing). Nissan just stopped innovating. Jaguar had a great offering but is essentially Chinese and stopped innovating on the platform so are now behind. Stellantis did the Citroen thing of quirky cars which seems to have somewhat worked out? Their 45kmh BEV sold well. Mostly to 16 year olds who should have been cycling but it sold. They kept the lower end of the market with basic innovation. Renault came late with a sensible offering but is there now. They certainly did not create that early belief in a transition. Toyota? The Prius was very important but then nothing. Subaru? Nope. Mitsubishi? Made the i-Miev which was a hit for being a BEV at the time, it was not a great car but not expensive by today's standards. Battery replacement is a challenge. They did not continue on this path.

Tesla made the most positive moves for BEV. Much hated now, but we have to give that to them. In an industry where no one thought a new manufacturer could stand up, they created a car brand that made BEV cool. It came with its own blend of quality control issues and challenging worker conditions.

The Chinese leapfrogged the market with the intent of leapfrogging. Heavily subsidised to enter the market, ready to push other players out. They focussed on electric know-how and it worked. Again, not an established manufacturer and different worker conditions.

German execution was not fast enough. The established manufacturers are not well equipped for disruptive events. We must remember that people were not ready to switch. It was and is expensive. But in the grand scheme of things, I find German manufacturers to have been an important piece of the puzzle in the switch. I hate the lobbying for combustion engines and would rather hear about lobbying for BEV R&D. We should ensure worker conditions can stay or improve whilst producing what we need to limit climate change.

Go Germans. Please produce BEV driver cars.

[-] DirtPuddleMisfortune@feddit.org 2 points 11 hours ago

Great summary! But Renault was not that late I believe. They built the Zoe, which was great because it looked like a normal car, not like the i-Miev (Miev translates in German to stink). The Zoe was a solid car and kind of a best seller in Germany regarding BEVs (I drive one myself).

The mistake German car brands made was focussing on luxury and high class cars. The VW management was baffled that the cheap cars of Cupra and Skoda are selling really good. Which only leads to the conclusion that there are idiots sitting in the C suite, completely detached from reality.

this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2026
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