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Fight me on it (ttrpg.network)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/rpgmemes@ttrpg.network
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Every time people lament changes to the lore that amount to "not every member of species X is irredeemably evil" and claim the game is removing villains from it, I think how villains of so-caleld evil species fall into two cathegories: a) bland and boring and b)have something else, unrelated to their species going on for them, that makes them interesting.

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[–] -1 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

No, sorry, that still doesn't answer my question.

Cosmically controlled goblins are doing the same thing as bandits, but the bandits made the choice to do evil things and the goblins didn't get a chance to refuse. Surely, the people choosing to do evil are worse than those forced to do evil, right? So why are bandits better than goblins?

The suggestions you gave fall kinda flat to me, really. No matter what the in-universe reason is, the DM made the universe. "It's what my character would do" doesn't excuse bad behaviour, and neither does "it's what my gods decided." You're the one who made them do that. You're the one that decided an entire culture of thinking, feeling people are born objectively evil and can be killed en masse. And that's fucked up.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    You’re the one that decided an entire culture of thinking, feeling people are born objectively evil and can be killed en masse. And that’s fucked up.

    I think that's where the issue falls apart. You want them to be thinking feeling people who can change. They don't have to be. If an evil deity creates Goblins, and makes them evil for whatever reason, they can inherently lack the ability to freely think and evolve.

    And there's nothing "fucked up" about it.

    Look at some villains who are just objectively evil. People point-out the Adventure Time Lich all the time, and that thing is just evil. There's no point trying to argue with it. No point trying to convince it to right its wrongs. It doesn't care, because it's just evil.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    Goblins have language and culture and religion, and that all requires the ability to think, feel and grow. Making them evil means that either your worldbuilding is nonsense or you've made a thinking, feeling group of people inherently evil from birth. If you want a group that doesn't think, feel or grow, then do what I said in the first place and use undead.

    Stop saying it's an evil deity doing these things. It's just you. You're doing these things. Don't be a coward.

    Are you seriously trying to justify Boblin the Goblin being evil because of the Lich from Adventure time? One is the cosmic manifestation of the death of all things, and the other is short and green. That's not remotely the same.

    And most objectively evil villains in fiction are, I shall point out, human. Nothing to do with their species. A group of human bandits and a group of goblin bandits are equally evil. And at no point have you given any explanation as to why that wouldn't be the case.

    Either answer the fucking question or shut the fuck up.

    Edit: It would appear they chose to shut the fuck up. I would have preferred they answer the question, but this is acceptable.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago

    Y-you...you do realize the lich, as liches generally work this way, was probably once human, right? And is choosing to believe all life must be quelled? Like...that's an example of an irredeemably evil person who is actively choosing to be irredeemably evil. Moron.

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