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On class interest of americans in maintaining imperialism (lemmygrad.ml)
submitted 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) by rugarc@lemmygrad.ml to c/asklemmygrad@lemmygrad.ml
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hi! I was discussing with a few different people about how the american working class relates to the means of production in the context of imperialism

so my setup is that in the context of imperialism, production of people’s needs mainly happens outside of america, and it seems that americans’ primary source of wealth and well-being comes from those superprofits

so then americans as a whole seem to have power in maintaining this system, from protecting it via participating in the military, working in jobs that manage this imperial system (e.g. finance, defense, etc.), selecting the american candidates that pursue their favorite imperialist policies (i.e the policies that give them a larger share of the super profits). in turn, the domestic capitalists in america need the support of the americans, so they and the americans come to an agreement on how to divide the superprofits from the factories abroad among them

so, in the broader sense of imperialism, it seems to me that american capitalists and the group of average americans share ownership in the means of production. what are everyone's thoughts?

(I edited the post to make the context clearer, originally I had asked an abstract question about ownership that didn't get at the imperialism context)

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[-] rugarc@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

ah hmmm, maybe I should've asked the context of the question directly 😅 (I'll also edit the main post with context). I was confused how the american working class relates to the means of production. so my setup is that in the context of imperialism, the production of people's needs mainly happens outside of america, and it seems that americans' primary source of wealth and well-being comes from those superprofits

so then americans as a whole seem to have power in maintaining this system, from protecting it via participating in the military, working in jobs that manage this imperial system (e.g. finance, defense, etc.), selecting the american candidates that pursue their favorite imperialist policies (i.e the policies that give them a larger share of the super profits). in turn, the domestic capitalists in america need the support of the americans, so they and the americans come to an agreement on how to divide the superprofits from the factories abroad among them

so, in the broader sense of imperialism, it seems to me that american capitalists and the group of average americans share ownership in the means of production, in a primary sense. but is there something wrong in this reasoning?

[-] Cowbee@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 4 days ago

To put it very simply, Statesian workers do not share ownership of the MoP, but they recieve a share of the spoils from the class that does own the MoP as bribes.

[-] starkillerfish@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 4 days ago

this is how i would describe it too

[-] nugnuts@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

To add to this, I think there are some assumptions in this reasoning that are worth addressing.

so then americans as a whole seem to have power in maintaining this system, from protecting it via participating in the military, working in jobs that manage this imperial system (e.g. finance, defense, etc.), selecting the american candidates that pursue their favorite imperialist policies (i.e the policies that give them a larger share of the super profits)

This is essentially how the system functions, but it presupposes more agency on behalf of the Statsian workers than exists in practicable reality. For example, if one is selecting one imperalist over another in an election, it's worth noting the vote for imperialism is fully baked in.

Similarly:

in turn, the domestic capitalists in america need the support of the americans, so they and the americans come to an agreement on how to divide the superprofits from the factories abroad among them

It might be literally true that the domestic capitalists need the support of the Statesian workers, but it depends on what we mean by "support." At present the Statesian workers do not have any viable organized resistance to provide any actionable counterbalance. The support is implicitly baked into the system as is, and of course the bribes, propaganda, systemic degradation of any meaningful angency, etc., solidify this. The Statesian workers have no real say in how the spoils are divided; they simply take what they can get at best.

this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2026
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