this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2020
1 points (100.0% liked)

menby

7963 readers
1 users here now

A space for masculine folks to talk about living under patriarchy.

Detoxing masculinity since 1990!

You don’t get points for feminism, feminism is expected.

Guidelines:

  1. Questions over blame
  2. Humility over pride
  3. Wisdom over dogma
  4. Actions over image

Rules (expansions on the guidelines):

  1. Mistakes should be learning experiences when possible.
    • Do not attack comrades displaying vulnerability for what they acknowledge are mistakes.
    • If you see good-faith behavior that's toxic, do your best to explain why it's toxic.
    • If you don't have the energy to engage, report and move on.
    • This includes past mistakes. If you've overcome extreme reactionary behavior, we'd love to know how.
    • A widened range of acceptable discussion means a greater need for sensitivity and patience for your comrades.
    • Examples:
      • "This is reactionary. Here's why."
      • "I know that {reality}, but I feel like {toxicity}"
      • "I don't understand why this is reactionary, but it feels like it {spoilered details}"
  2. You are not entitled to the emotional labor of others.
    • Constantly info-dumping and letting us sort through your psyche is not healthy for any of us.
    • If you feel a criticism of you is unfair, do not lash out.
    • If you can't engage self-critically, delete your post.
    • If you don't know how to phrase why it's unfair, say so.
  3. No singular masculine ideal.
    • This includes promoting gender-neutral traits like "courage" or "integrity" as "manly".
    • Suggestions for an individual to replace a toxic ideal is fine.
    • Don't reinforce the idea the fulfillment requires masculinity.
    • This also includes tendency struggle-sessions.
  4. No lifestyle content.
    • Post the picture of your new grill in !food (feminine people like grills too smh my head).
    • Post the picture of the fish you caught in !sports (feminine people like fish too smdh my damn head).
    • At best, stuff like this is off-topic. At worst, it's reinforcing genders norms..
    • If you're not trying to be seen as masculine for your lifestyle content, it's irrelevant to this comm. If you are trying to be seen as masculine, let's have a discussion about why these things are seen as masculine.

Resources:

*The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 
top 9 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 years ago

I don't know how it's possible to believe in toxic masculinity and also unironically believe men are literally all incurably innately bad. Toxic masculinity implies the existence of nontoxic masculinity. It implies that our societal concept of manhood is damaging, and hurts everyone - men and woman and nb people - and that we need to take steps to change it. I see this "yes all men are evil" stuff as just venting, and it doesn't hurt me when people say it because it doesn't really affect me, and I believe that the people saying it have things they're totally justified in venting about, but like in this conversation, it clearly hurts other people.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 years ago* (last edited 4 years ago)

I'm somewhere along the femby scale but I'm glad to see this - I pretty often see ironic humor about hating men, even in trans circles, and it disappoints me because I know that although it's not meant to disparage specific people and trans men it often has that effect and people get carried away. Personally I think regardless of one's past experiences with specific guys, it's not cool to blanket guys as a whole as bad. It's also just incorrect to do so. So hey, @ all the wholesome dudes out there, you're valid and cool

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 years ago

Liberal "feminism" was a mistake

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 years ago (1 children)

Oh my god grow up. What is a woman gonna do when they hate you, be a little rude to you? We got bigger fucking problems to worry about.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 years ago (1 children)

Given the fact that people are reluctant to present and identify with their chosen gender identity as a result of this, I would say it's more than just some women being rude.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 years ago (1 children)

I think that’s people failing to understand this shit is not aimed at FTM or transmac people. Men are trash comes from men being useless, abusive, cheaters, etc. If you are FTM or transmasc you are not the really the type of men they are referring to, unless you think that being a masc person is being a useless shit. Unless they are terfs, and nobody should give a shit about TERFs.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 years ago (1 children)

not really the type of men

Isn’t that the problem? This sort of thing labels “real men” as trash, which could cause problems for trans men/trans masc identity

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 years ago* (last edited 4 years ago) (1 children)

It’s not real men. Why is the asshole piece of shit the real man? What do trans men gain from wanting to associate their masculinity with the godawful masculinity most reasonable men are trying to escape?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 years ago* (last edited 4 years ago)

If “all men are trash” is a repeated sentiment, you don’t think that might cause a little undue stress for trans men who are pursuing their own masculine identity? As if this wasn’t the point in shaun’s observation - that generalized hatred toward men is not productive and could even be destructive, whereas criticism of toxic masculinity is necessary