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[-] SootySootySoot@hexbear.net 32 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I mean, sure, I agree. But unless I missed something, I never saw any significant number of people claim otherwise. Solarpunk was always just an aesthetic and a cool envisioning of possible future life. I never saw it portrayed as an 'ideology'.

Aesthetics and shared artistic ideas are revolutionary in importance, I appreciate you saying they have value, but what I do frequently see is such a weird amount of pushback to it. Yeah read theory mfers, but this is important.

Solarpunk is the first non-AES art genre(/small scale art movement) I've personally seen that's genuinely trying to feel out, build and coalesce a shared vision, beauty and sense of wonder about the world we're aiming for, and I'd mark that as equally if not more important to a successful socialist victory.

At no point should we be regarding this kind of post-capitalist idealist art and sentiment as an obstacle; Yeah it can't be the ONLY basis for revolution, but it's a form of communication I'd argue that is criminally underused in social movements, because it can speak to billions of people more effectively than words, and we would do well to actively embrace and evolve it.

[-] CarmineCatboy2@hexbear.net 42 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I always thought that the problem with stuff like the Solarpunk Manifesto is that it's like Soviet Aesthetic purged of workers and labor. I could make a drawing or a song based on the ideal of Communism, such as it may exist in the far (hopefully not too far) future. Soviet art tends not to depict that per se, instead what you see is workers labouring and happy to be labouring under Socialism, building out that Communist ideal. Solarpunk as an ideology is meant to be an antidote to despair, so the ideal Solarpunk world is already built.

The focus of Soviet art always seemed on people, wether they were working, fighting or building that Communist ideal. The focus of Solarpunk is on places, it is farms, gardens and green plazas, all devoid of mosquitoes, never being built but always being used - and I think only a minority of the Solarpunk artists caught up with that and started adding people on work suits doing the work of maintaining those places.

This is a picture I found online of a Sistema Agro-Florestal (Agri-Forest System) in Brazil. It is an idea that is arising under capitalism to combine local, native flora with staple foods and cash crops, in a way that permits you to more reliably control pests and cut back on both fertilizer and presticides. It also allows you to utilize land for food production without completely breaking down natural ecosystems, as native fauna like birds, mammals and insects, can make use of the Forest part of the system for transit and other purposes.

If I'm not mistaken, this sort of thing is also becoming a thing in upscale coffee farms in order to a) improve crop quality due to symbiosis, b) reduce vulnerability to extreme weather events such as heatwaves and extreme rains. There's also the idea to increase cocoa production in Brazil back to historical levels, as the country has had to deal with the Witch's Broom plague for decades at this point. So its not limited to small scale family farms either. Again, its an idea of that is arising in capitalist Brazil and, presumably, in many other places as well.

This is a drawing by a magazine in capitalist Brazil depicting an idealized version of Agri-Forest systems.. There's a guy using a hoe to till the soil and there's another guy climbing a ladder to harvest fruit. Idealized in a way, as there's no use of machinery, not even for watering crops. But its something human and achievable right away.

And this is a Solarpunk farm. Labor is only implied - the lady is having her cup of coffee in the morning, raring to go. But go where? The even larger implication is that everything is automated. The future is optimistic. Even the picking of delicate, fresh fruit has been optimized by ghibli octoarms machines.

Then you've got the floating gardens in places like Mexico, which harness native techniques to create pockets of extreme fertility and endurance in the middle of Mexico City. It really is something to behold but it is not something that can be appreciated without the labor involved in creating, maintaining and cleaning canal farms in the middle of a metropolis.

My hypothesis is that what forces of production remain in the US are so regressive that the people with a positive, environmental outlook into the future just aren't in industry or farming. They are city dwellers who, for the most part, wish their cities were livable spaces. Whereas elsewhere in the Global South, however regressive the landowners and capitalists may be when it comes to rewarding labor, environmental pressures do force them and their media to open the way for different ways of doing things. Even if it starts as a cynical ploy to acquire carbon credits or greenwash their initiatives of capital, something like a large scale sugar farm that doesn't do harvest burns respond to a real, social demand for fewer miserable months of mass air pollution in a year, for an instance - while also being a frontier for capital investment.

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 17 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

This is a really good response and I wanted to elaborate on it a little but I don't have much juice left in my battery so it's gonna be more of a sketch than a fully fleshed out reply like yours:

Solarpunk feels reminiscent of that Marx quote, that it is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. It is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. (Although it's transposed onto the political realm and urban design rather than the spiritual.)

I think so much of this goes back to the urge that traces its roots to a Thoreauvian desire to "return to nature" and to realign oneself with the "good", away from the debased reality of society as it exists around us. It's a way of checking out of society and this urge is endemic in the west, especially in the US, where it seems like every other person longs to check out from their conditions and escape to an alienated, self-sufficient back-to-nature lifestyle on a generous homestead. (Look, I'm gonna be real - I can't lie and say that this doesn't hold an allure for me too but the solution to political ills is never and will never be to escape and check out from politics.)

The thing is though that a solarpunk world isn't one that is a degrowth or sustainable growth society but it's only possible to achieve this bucolic utopian vision by depopulation; there absolutely is not enough acreage available even if we had multiple earths to provide this lifestyle for everyone while also being sustainable and while having sufficient wild regions that maintain healthy biodiversity and a stable ecology. Strange that the solarpunk vision never seems to have room for wild spaces within its vision, just like how it conspicuously omits labor.

And there's the rub - it's really an alienated, deeply consumerist vision of what it's like to be "back in nature" or whatever from the perspective of an urban or suburban westerner; there are no stables to muck out, no weeds to pull, no battling against the elements and instead fruit drops from the trees into your hands and the crops grow themselves. It's a very mystified or mythologized post capitalist techno-eden that feels very, very petit-bourgeois in spirit and especially in its view of the world. Yeah, it's not the same as a European aristocrat's lavish estate from a few centuries back but it feels like it has a lot more in common with that than it has the people who are producing the coffee to make your morning comfort a reality while you wistfully gaze out at rolling hills with babbling brooks and wind power generation as an electrified bullet train whizzes between the meadows in the background.

[-] CarmineCatboy2@hexbear.net 8 points 3 months ago

Solarpunk feels reminiscent of that Marx quote, that it is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. It is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. (Although it's transposed onto the political realm and urban design rather than the spiritual.)

This is why I think its important to be charitable about criticisms of Solarpunk. It does come from a genuine place. It's not the vapid futurism that Tech Oligarchs sell. And the video does make this point well: its not enough to have an aesthetic, you have to ask yourself how you get to that Solarpunk ideal, because, after all is said and done, if your aesthetic and your wellwishes do not arise from a concrete programme it becomes the easiest thing to co-op. Especially by said Tech Oligarchs. This, of course, without asking oneself any questions about de-growth, consumerism or the economic system in place. Even within a capitalist framework you have to be smart about it, otherwise you'll never get those walkable cities you so desire.

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this post was submitted on 04 Feb 2026
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