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Meals (slrpnk.net)
submitted 6 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[-] [email protected] 55 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

This is charity, not Socialism. This is providing help at the whim of one person's desires or beliefs. Charity has its place but society should use its resources to offer help to everyone in need.

Edit: And just to be clear, when we talk about socialism, we are talking about democratic socialism. That doesn't mean there isn't free market commerce, it just means that the market is regulated. Even the U.S. regulates its free market.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

It's not socialism because it says nothing about the workers owning the means of production

The response is still relevant because the premise of socialism is that the industrial and agricultural revolutions have increased production to such an extent that there is no reason for anyone to go hungry.

[-] [email protected] 28 points 5 days ago

Wouldn't this work better if it was on the dumpster?

[-] [email protected] 17 points 5 days ago

Having it on the door makes it performative, doesn't it

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[-] [email protected] 98 points 6 days ago

Another poor soul saved from the orphan crushing machine. How heartwarming.

[-] [email protected] 48 points 6 days ago

A bit off topic, but this is why I avoid communities for "uplifting news". It sounds like a good concept at first, but then most of the news are based on that.

[-] [email protected] 67 points 6 days ago

I don't want my tax money saving people from destitution. I want that guy to do it so I can read about it on social media.

[-] [email protected] 14 points 6 days ago

And they call it doomscrolling! I do it to pat myself on the back!

[-] [email protected] 18 points 5 days ago

If we could trust every last person to act on charity, and every person to accept charity only when they need it, socialism wouldn't be required.

But will this sign change when a small homeless camp sets up on their doorstep?

Supporting the public comes with its own unique set of problems. You need to do this kind of thing at scale, or it will fracture and fall apart.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 5 days ago

Exactly. In an ideal world this type of thing would be enough, but that's not the world we live in, and charity like this is just not going to cut it. That's not to say that it isn't a kind gesture, though.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago

i fully expect they entirely meant well.

[-] [email protected] 27 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Fundamental misunderstanding. Conservatives would actually call this a win for their side IMO. This is because conservatives believe charity > socialism. If I were to be, er, charitable toward conservatives, I would say it's because they distrust government but believe in human generosity. They often really do believe in charity though, at least the comparatively sane ones that I know; it's not something that they just say to deflect.

The problem with charity IMO is that it typically performs quite poorly. The average charity is 100x less effective than the best charities (Givewell), and IIRC this is essentially true regardless of what metric you use for "best." It's also fundamentally not a fair way to distribute wealth; it doesn't help people with different problems equally; and it doesn't necessarily come from different sources in relation to how much they can give. Most people who donate have a narrow moral circle -- they care about some strangers much more than other strangers, based on questionable things like race, proximity, or religion. (Some might object to me citing Effective Altruism here, fair enough, but if you're already coming from the perspective that charity is the best way to improve the lives of those less fortunate, then it's really hard to argue with the research EA has done.)

The way I see socialism is essentially scaled-up, fair, and mandatory charity.

[-] [email protected] 13 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Conservatives would actually call this a win for their side IMO.

Abstractly. But as soon as they see it happening in person, they begin frantically dialing the police.

That's why Houston Food Not Bombs needed to get a court order forbidding the police for repeatedly ticketing them for no reason.

it’s really hard to argue with the research EA has done.

It's not.

Effective altruism distills all of ethics into an overriding variable: suffering. And that fatally oversimplifies the many ways in which the living world can be valuable. Effective altruism discounts the ethical dimensions of relationships, the rich braid of elements that make up a “good life,” and the moral worth of a species or a wetland.

But setting that aside, the idea of charity is rooted in the theory that you need a popular buy-in before you can achieve significant lasting change.

That's not wrong on its face. But the modern incarnations of charity are so heavily focused on the populism (flashy PR campaigns, obnoxious and invasive marketing strategies, charity as spectacle to drive more engagement) that they often fail to deliver their states goals.

The issue isn't merely of one's moral circle, it is of one's visual range and economic heft. When you're relying on a few plutocrats to dictate philanthropic social policy, you're banking heavily on their omniscience.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I'll read the rebuttal of EA, but I'll trade you if you read this EA unmanifesto.

Effective altruism distills all of ethics into an overriding variable: suffering.

This is actually not true. Givewell, for instance, publishes their findings as spreadsheets and lets you set weights on different aspects of human experience you consider to be good or bad.

Effective altruism discounts the ethical dimensions of relationships, the rich braid of elements that make up a “good life,” and the moral worth of a species or a wetland.

This is also just objectively not true and suggests to me you've never even talked to an effective altruist. But it is generally believed by EAs that horrible suffering, such as the kinds of suffering caused by easily-preventable illnesses, is much worse than any of the subtle and varied experiences of a good life which can be bought with the same amount of money are good. So if you just want to "do good," donate to stopping horrible illnesses before donating to subtler causes.

But setting that aside, the idea of charity is rooted in the theory that you need a popular buy-in before you can achieve significant lasting change.

I actually think this is the idea of socialism, not charity. Ozy Brennan again, on difference between leftism and EA:

I think neglectedness is actually the core disagreement between effective altruists and many leftists [...] Leftists emphasize organizing and mass participation. From a leftist perspective, all things equal, the fact that a movement is big is a point in favor of joining it. Leftists believe that nothing you do is going to do much good unless it’s part of a broad, coordinated effort to permanently shift the balance of power. [...] From an effective altruist perspective, all things equal, the fact that a movement is big is a point against joining it: if lots of people are working on janitorial justice, probably the problem is already well-handled.

I don't actually believe this about leftism personally, but I think this should be taken evidence against charity being rooted in the need for a popular buy-in.

When you’re relying on a few plutocrats to dictate philanthropic social policy, you’re banking heavily on their omniscience.

Agreed. You may have missed this, but I'm advocating for socialism, not charity.

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[-] [email protected] 14 points 6 days ago

But if we have socialism, how will the rich give the poor people the breadcrumbs to stroke their ego and appear like a benevolent monarch? Think of their feelings!

[-] [email protected] 14 points 6 days ago

What’s with the Windows 95 style inset border and black border on this?

[-] [email protected] 24 points 6 days ago
[-] [email protected] 10 points 6 days ago

Screenshots have gone too far. Time to learn how to save images properly.

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[-] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago

First time I read “incest border”. Time to lay off the pornhub.

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[-] [email protected] 11 points 6 days ago

Why would the person that goes through the bins go to the front of the shop to look at a piece of paper on the glass. Surely you'd post this on the bin that night?

Feels like I could write a hand written receipt from oxfam, thanking me for the 8 figure donation, and put it on my tinder profile.

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[-] [email protected] 8 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

The love the idea of performative goodness which costs them less than a dollar one time which they can then milk endlessly for good vibes with their fellow man buuuuut they really don't want to come off $300 every month so that the young woman who works in the same establishment can have enough to feed her kids well. It costs a lot more it scales and nobody personally thanks them or sees them being a good person when they pay the IRS to fund this. If they pay the IRS that is.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 6 days ago

It's a design flaw that many people get more satisfaction out of other people's charitable actions than their own.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Really? I would have said that was a learned behaviour, with all those feel-good stories (& the hype & how it makes them respectable).

I have noticed I initially immediately distrust "charitable" people bcs at best I discovered their empathy is purely visual (like the shellshock of a crying child, but directly confronting to or advancing the causes of that are outside of view so fuck that child, we all gotta do what's best for us). Not to mention, it has to be public charity, ie they need to get something in return.

Beyond emotional support, charities are only for cases when society already grossly failed, not something we want to see more of.

So many people needing charity for things that arent even scarce, is just horrific & should make us want to make whether changes needed to fix the system.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 6 days ago

My immediate reaction is that the owner probably took the picture himself trying to go viral and immediately took it down. Nothing gets solved in this country anymore unless there's a dollar to be made and looking like a good person is somehow more important than being a good person. Why would the person even read it on the front door? Why not discretely package some food and put it next to the dumpster with a note stuck to it? Nothing about this makes sense when you analyze it. The few real heroes of this country are unsung, the rest is just virtue signaling.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago

These people love the sense of broadcasting their "selfless giving", and totally not for attention and influence.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 6 days ago

I'd like to push back on this notion.

Fundamentally it feels like saying, "a good deed is only good if done for the right reason".

That might be important for religion or some other way to measure individual morality, but as a society it really doesn't matter. In fact, having some sort of reward for helping others is useful, since it encourages people to be kind.

I would be pleased as punch if the wealthy and powerful were admired for how much they made the world a better place, instead of because of the size of the swimming pool filled with gold coins in their basement.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 6 days ago

Always reminds me of the classic Brecht piece "Saint Joan of the Stockyards" whenever I see celebrations of "charity" like this.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Orphan crushing machine

[-] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

There may well be much healthier stuff in their dumpster than peanut butter and jelly. Why not offer to make an arrangement with the person in question to let them take stuff that's about to expire? Or, like, separate food that's being marked out into its own bag and maybe even put it in a cooler or something?

There was a time in my life when I did a fair bit of this myself and I was mostly getting like prepared foods that had been marked out the same day I was getting them. Peanut butter and jelly would have been a downgrade from pulling a couple of days worth of meals with like meat and cheese and veggies and stuff rather than just sugar and nuts and bread.

Not to say that this isn't nice, but it may well be a less viable option on its own in the long term. I suppose they could always do both.

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this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2025
1324 points (98.3% liked)

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