this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2023
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My dude, I consider myself pretty liberal. For quick context: I think Joe Biden and the establishment stole the 2020 primary from Bernie Sanders, and I haven't been gruntled since.
I agree with every point you made, explaining your political opinions.
The only things that I want to say are that being liberal and being proud of your country are not mutually exclusive. That's a media propaganda talking point. "Liberals hate America!" - That's just not true. Also, it sounds like you had a conversation about pay rates with an actual communist. Very few liberals are going to support actual communism. That's another propaganda talking point.
Liberalism and democratic socialism is nowhere near communism. Democratic socialism supports the things you expressed support for: Social safety net programs, funding education, social medicine.
We all have more in common than we're led to believe.
I met a lot of left people that just spew talking points and choose whatever is the nicest view to have. They wouldn't say they are communist but they say stuff that is partially communist. Then make out everyone is heartless monsters. A lot of people recently were complaining about supermarkets making 1% profit margin. Saying it's too much, like loads of left wingers had this view and said they should be government owned. It's madness.
I'm not American. Also I'm not that liberal at all, one of our most right wing governments ever was famously liberal and sold every government asset and let the free market deal with everything. There is a reason ding dong the witch is dead hit 1 in the charts when Maggie died. Liberalism is not anything the left or most of the right ever want back.
Socialism is communism though. That's the definition of the word.
Socialism "...advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole"
I apologize for making the assumption that you were American.
Its my understanding that even liberal american politicians are rather conservative, from a global perspective. This is probably the source of my confusion in our exchange.
But I agree with you that many people complain and are jealous when they see others being prosperous when they struggle to thrive. Also, people seem to just like to complain in general.
Here's a section that I found from a website, on democratic socialism:
" In the present day, "Democratic socialist" and "socialist" are often treated as interchangeable terms, which can be confusing given democratic socialists don't necessarily think the government should immediately take control of all aspects of the economy.
They do, however, generally believe the government should help provide for people's most basic needs and help all people have an equal chance at achieving success. "
I think in this context, democratic socialists are just in support of government having more influence in business, strengthening unions and worker protections, addressing the massive wealth inequality. The current american government is really more on the side of business than on the side of workers.
Practically speaking, all acceptable political ideologies in a liberal democracy could be considered liberal, or at the very least on the liberal spectrum. Liberalism is such a broad ideology, that both hyper religious neocon neoliberals and democratic socialists could qualify. Economic liberalism is typically what liberal has colloquially meant outside the US, while in the US, it has referred to social liberalism. Thatcher and Reagan had very similar ideologies, but Thatcher called herself a liberal, while to 1980s Republicans, liberal was a dirty word. It's a fucky term, but if you're a Brit who loves your country, you probably love liberalism in some way.
Democratic socialists are fiscally socialist, but still want to work within the system of liberal democracy to eventually achieve communism. "Communist" colloquially refers to people who want to achieve communism without working through liberal democracy. This includes everything from Marxist-Leninists(think the Soviets), to anarcho-communists, both of which wildly disagree with eachother. The landscape is full of people of don't self identify accurately to what they ideologically believe because of the colloquial meaning of these terms.
Also, you are exceptionally lucky to have not run into fascists. If you actually exposed yourself to the double speak and misinformation they use to justify right wing beliefs, you too might lose faith in all right wing arguments like I have.