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submitted 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

Image is from this article, of a Chilean copper quarry.

Title is a reference to Trump's social media post about copper, which was, as usual, mostly deranged.


Trying to follow Trump's administration is pretty difficult, but as of right now, he is threatening 30% tariffs on Mexico and the EU starting on August 1st, as well as new tariff announcements on a bunch of other countries (including, bizarrely, a 50% tariff on Brazil), and also apparently a 50% tariff on copper, which the US imports half its supply of and is, of course, a very important metal in many applications.

I'm not sure what the plan is to bring back domestic copper production beyond hoping that it just sorta works out, but prominent copper producers, such as Chile and Canada, seem both concerned and confused. Reuters had a line that made me chuckle:

Boric said he was awaiting official communication from the U.S. government, including whether the tariffs would include copper cathodes, and questioned "whether this will actually be implemented or not."

Big mood, Boric.


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https://t.me/aleksandr_skif ~ DPR's former Defense Minister and Colonel in the DPR's forces. Russian language.
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https://t.me/s/levigodman ~ Does daily update posts.
https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday ~ Patrick Lancaster's telegram channel.
https://t.me/gonzowarr ~ A big Russian commentator.
https://t.me/rybar ~ One of, if not the, biggest Russian telegram channels focussing on the war out there. Actually quite balanced, maybe even pessimistic about Russia. Produces interesting and useful maps.
https://t.me/epoddubny ~ Russian language.
https://t.me/boris_rozhin ~ Russian language.
https://t.me/mod_russia_en ~ Russian Ministry of Defense. Does daily, if rather bland updates on the number of Ukrainians killed, etc. The figures appear to be approximately accurate; if you want, reduce all numbers by 25% as a 'propaganda tax', if you don't believe them. Does not cover everything, for obvious reasons, and virtually never details Russian losses.
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses ~ Pro-Russian, documents abuses that Ukraine commits.

Pro-Ukraine Telegram Channels:

Almost every Western media outlet.
https://discord.gg/projectowl ~ Pro-Ukrainian OSINT Discord.
https://t.me/ice_inii ~ Alleged Ukrainian account with a rather cynical take on the entire thing.


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[-] [email protected] 64 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Interesting reporting coming from both the Financial Times and Washington Post today.

Financial Times

Two people familiar with the conversation between Trump and Zelenskyy said the US president had asked his Ukrainian counterpart whether he could hit military targets deep inside Russia if he provided weapons capable of doing so.

“Volodymyr, can you hit Moscow? . . . Can you hit St Petersburg too?” Trump asked on the call, according to the people.

They said Zelenskyy replied: “Absolutely. We can if you give us the weapons.”

Trump signalled his backing for the idea, describing the strategy as intended to “make them [Russians] feel the pain” and force the Kremlin to the negotiating table, according to the two people briefed on the call.

During a meeting with US defence officials and intermediaries from Nato governments, Zelenskyy received a list of long-range strike systems that potentially could be made available to Ukraine via third-party transfers.

The arrangement would allow Trump to sidestep the need for Congressional approval on direct US military aid by authorising weapons sales to European allies, who would then pass the systems on to Kyiv.

The Ukrainians had asked for Tomahawk missiles, precision strike cruise missiles with a range of around 1,600km. But the Trump administration — like the Biden administration — had concerns about Ukraine’s lack of restraint, said a person familiar with the list shared with Zelenskyy.

Washington Post

What Trump didn’t talk about is that the military assistance might also include authorization for some powerful new offensive weapons. I’m told by a source involved in the decision that this is likely to include permission to use the 18 long-range ATACMS missiles now in Ukraine at their full range of 300 kilometers (about 190 miles). That wouldn’t reach all the way to Moscow or St. Petersburg, but it would strike military bases, airfields and supply depots deep inside Russia that are now out of range. The package might also include more ATACMS.

Trump also considered sending Tomahawk cruise missiles, the same weapons fired against Iranian targets last month. If fired from Ukraine, these could hit Moscow and St. Petersburg, and they were included in discussion as late as Friday. But the Tomahawks are off the delivery list for now, I’m told. They could be deployed later if Trump wants even more leverage.

Trump’s determination to squeeze Putin was conveyed in a conversation last week with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, a source told me. Trump asked Zelensky why he didn’t hit Moscow. “We can if you give us the weapons,” Zelensky said. Trump said Ukraine needed to put more pressure on Putin, not just Moscow but St. Petersburg, too.

Trump decided to escalate for three reasons, according to a source familiar with administration discussions. First, he believed that Putin was disrespecting him, feigning a readiness to make peace but ignoring the U.S. president’s call for a ceasefire. Second, he saw the efficacy of U.S. military power in the use of B-2 bombers and Tomahawk missiles against Iran. And third, he thought Putin would only negotiate if threatened with greater force. As the Russians like to say, Trump decided to “escalate to de-escalate.”

So TLAMs (Tomahawk Land Attack cruise Missiles) are up for consideration for Ukraine, but currently not being sent. More ATACMS are likely on the way, to supplement the current 18 ATACMS missiles Ukraine has. No mention of JASSM or JASSM-ER air launched stealth subsonic cruise missiles or PrSM ballistic missiles, or SM-6 in a surface to surface role. JASSM is interesting because the US could send the shorter range older variants for now, as a test run of sort, and there are many of these in the stockpiles likely set to expire soon.

The point about Trump getting to see the effectiveness of US military power in Israeli and US airstrikes on Iran is something very much overlooked. Part of the Trump right wing is full of useful idiots and grifters that don't understand basic science, think that the weather is controlled by the CIA, that F-35s don't work, don't understand stealth technology, vastly understate US military capabilities as the US military was "destroyed by woke", etc. Laura Loomer, Matt Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Tucker Carlson, Tulsi Gabbard and Pete Hegseth to an extent, etc. Those kind of grifters. They got shut down and shut out in real time, and now Marco Rubio and US Military Generals are in with Trump, given the events of the past few weeks, they essentially proved themselves to Trump. One could say that Rubio is effectively president here. This is very concerning, an emboldened Rubio, Trump, and US Military may choose to throw their weight around on other issues and in other theatres.

[-] [email protected] 26 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Y'know, I wouldn't exactly consider US military command to not be grifters, given the whole history of US military procurement, and I'm not sure why we should consider them to be significantly smarter than the typical US politicans given the performance of the US military in, like, everything since WW2? It isn't '91 anymore, the guys "understating" capabilities may well be right for the wrong reasons (like, the military facing a recruitment crisis is objective fact, and is already having effects - but it's obviously not because of "woke").

Does the Tomahawk have ground-launch capability? From what I read, there was the old Gryphon system from the Cold War, but that was dismantled as per the INF treaty, and more recently, with the INF becoming irrelevant - the Typhon system, but that was only introduced in 2023, and there's still just a handful of them around so none are going to Ukraine. Tomahawks don't have air-launch capability either, so... this is entirely irrelevant to Ukraine?

The same applies to the SM-6, although that one has an air-launch variant in development, but only the F/A-18E/F seems to be capable of carrying it, and it's too fresh of a system to send to Ukraine. So again, not relevant.

JASSMs could work, but how likely is it that Ukrainian F-16s could actually manage to successfully launch them? Just recently an F-16 went down down while doing air defense, has the F-16 fleet been able to fly any particularly extensive bombing missions?

Do we have precise numbers on how many ATACMS were sent until now? The Ukrainians did manage to destroy some air-defense systems and planes with them, but how effective that counts as really depends on the numbers they expended for such results. What I could find was "at least 500", which they have mostly expended by now. The Russians have also shown themselves to be capable of both intercepting ATACMS, and efficiently destroying the launchers themselves, so again - if the Ukrainians receive them, could they actually perform more than a handful of effective attacks with them before their launchers get tracked down and got?

The PrSM has been in service for a year-and-a-half, I highly doubt they'd send something this new. It literally just entered mass production, and the numbers for it up until now that I could find seem to be 42 (in 2023) + 110 missiles (2024), and some proportion of the 230 planned for 2025 - so, let's call it ≈270 up until July of 2025, and some of these would have been used up in testing and military exercises. Hardly a sufficiently large stockpile for the US to start handing these out willy-nilly, and the more advanced Increment 2 phase of the procurement process has already been delayed once.

[-] [email protected] 12 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

The Typhon launchers you mentioned + Rouge Fires (four wheeled unmanned ground vehicle capable of launching a single TLAM) can launch TLAMs. Though the Marines cancelled the TLAM capable Rouge Fires.

The key part of the Typhon is the Mk 70 Payload Delivery System, which is a large shipping container containing four Mk 41 Vertical Launch System canisters, the same VLS used to launch TLAMs from inside guided missile destroyers/cruisers, but inside a shipping container. The US equivalent to the Russian Club-K system, but a lot bigger. The Mk 70 containers are also designed to be deployed on the rear decks of littoral ships to give them TLAM capability. Sending a bunch of Mk 70 containerised systems to Ukraine is not a complicated endeavour, should the decision be made. Some Mk 41 VLS canisters could also be given standalone, the US conducted a ground launched TLAM test right after exiting the INF treaty with some standalone Mk 41 VLS canisters. If Ukraine were to get SM-6, it would be launched from Mk 41 VLS canisters, they don't have the aircraft to launch them, as you said. The anti ship version of the JASSM, the LRASM, can also be launched from Mk 41 VLS canisters.

JASSM launches should possible, if Ukraine can launch Storm Shadow/SCALP-EG cruise missiles from Su-24s, they can launch JASSMs from F-16s. High altitude launch from the rear lines while being escorted by other aircraft with anti radiation missiles to suppress ground based air defence. F-16s, along with MiG 29s and Su-27s, have been used for low altitude frontline bombing runs with glide bombs and rocket assisted bombs (GBU-39s for the F-16 in particular), the aircraft approaches at low altitude, quickly climbs, lobs the bombs, and quickly descends. High risk missions and the maximum range of the bombs is quite limited. The F-16s have been doing this for months, and one aircraft has been lost to Russian ground based air defence. Two other F-16s have been lost on air defence missions, and one was lost to friendly fire.

ATACMS, exact numbers are unknown. However, by the time Ukraine was allowed to strike into internationally recognised Russian territory by the Biden administration, they had already expended the vast majority of ATACMS, and only had around 50-60 left. They only have 15-20 left now. The concern is that more ATACMS are delivered, without any restrictions.

Fully agree with you on PrSM, I think it's quite unlikely. But the hypothetical possibly is still there.

[-] [email protected] 14 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Mk 70 containerised systems

But wouldn't such systems be incredibly vulnerable? The containers themselves obviously cannot move - you need to be on a vehicle, but ships are big and not very fast-moving. Ground-based launchers are really key to allow them to reposition and conceal themselves in order to avoid being taken out by counter-battery fire, or airstrikes, or drones, or ballistics. Ships seem like they'd be sitting ducks.

The Typhon system also includes a battery operations center - I assume this is pretty important, and just the containers without all the extra stuff related to programming and commanding the missiles won't be very effective.

Sending a bunch of Mk 70 containerised systems to Ukraine is not a complicated endeavour

Sending them might not be complicated - actually getting them to the country and using them is different. The Russians have struck numerous Ukrainian ammunition sites, including some alleged strikes on Western shipments. These containers are pretty big, and would likely attract attention. I guess the idea is to commit perfidy and disguise them as regular civilian cargo, but the Russians have already struck several vessels carrying grain (according to the Ukrainians of course), so they're not above just blowing up anything suspicious.

Bringing them by sea on the whole doesn't seem likely (in fact, isn't the Black Sea extensively mined at this point, at least around the Ukrainian shore?). I guess you could try bringing them via trucks over the Romanian border, straight to Odessa or something like that? But can regular civilian-seeming trucks carry such heavy containers? The US military itself is using one of its heavier models of truck for the Typhon.

The F-16s have been doing this for months, and one aircraft has been lost to Russian ground based air defence

Have they inflicted much actual damage? You're not at as much risk if you're not lobbing bombs at actually important targets, and the ability of Russian infantry to keep advancing doesn't seem to indicate they're being suppressed much by bombardment.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

They'd probably be lugged around on land, because of the range of the system a TLAM launched from Lviv can still hit Moscow and St Petersburg. I highly doubt that Ukraine has suitable ships to carry the Mk 70 system, the "Ukrainian Navy", if it can be called that, mainly consists of unmanned surface vessels that can be rigged with explosives, launch short range surface to air missiles, or launch drones, manned patrol boats to shoot down incoming drones, and Neptune missiles. I doubt that Russia has the capability to take out launchers on land in Lviv in a time sensitive manner though. However they aren't being sent yet (according to public information), so this is very much talking about hypotheticals. But it is very much technically possible. As for delivery, a Mk 70 container can fit in the back of a C-17 that lands in Poland, and be sent over the Polish border by land. The super heavy trucks and support vehicles/command centres from the Typhon aren't required, just need a truck that can tow the container and an energy source, and some ability to program the missile, if the goal is to shoot some missiles deep into Russia. Effectiveness would be comprised as you rightfully point out, but if the primary goal is to launch missiles into Russia, it's still doable. Throughout the war, Ukraine and NATO have been willing to heavily compromise on optimal effectiveness in order to get a capability on the battlefield, which is what I'm basing my thoughts on here. Jerry rigging Storm Shadow/SCALP-EG cruise missiles to be launched from Su-24s, and HARM anti radiation missiles from MiG 29s and Su-27s as escorts, is in no way optimally effective for instance. But Ukraine still did it, and have at least hit things of note with these attacks, including damaging a Kilo class submarines and damaging or destroying multiple landing ships.

Ukrainian airstrikes on Russia have mainly been more of an annoyance up until now, targeting warehouses, drone operator locations, and trenches/fortified positions, but they are progressing as Ukraine gets more planes. Recently they started destroying bridges with JDAM ER glide bombs, and deploying multiple aircraft at once. The Russian response is very much "kill the archer and not the arrow", bombing Ukrainian airbases, airports, and support infrastructure during their nightly air raids. The low altitude attack vector limits the kind of airstrikes Ukraine carry out, but it also limits Russian ground based air defences ability to shoot down Ukrainian aircraft. If Russia wants to shoot down Ukrainian strike packages directly, Russian fighter jets are going to have to get closer to the line of contact and engage in closer range fights, with R-77 missiles at least. Launching R-37Ms from safely within Russian controlled skies is no longer working to disrupt strikes. Ex Russian Air Force pilot FighterBomber alluded to such a few weeks ago, that Russian commanders were finally allowing the air force to engage in closer range fights (he sarcastically compared it to the moon landing in terms of significance). Russia has the capability to suppress Ukraine's efforts before the Ukrainian Air Force becomes a more serious threat (even if it means Russia taking losses now), so it would be an error to allow Ukraine to rebuild the air force.

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this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2025
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