this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2023
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The Danish government will try to find legal means that will enable authorities to prevent the burning of copies of the Quran in front of other countries’ embassies in Denmark, Foreign Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen has said.

“The burnings are deeply offensive and reckless acts committed by few individuals. These few individuals do not represent the values the Danish society is built on,” Rasmussen said in a statement on Sunday.

“The Danish government will therefore explore the possibility of intervening in special situations where, for instance, other countries, cultures, and religions are being insulted, and where this could have significant negative consequences for Denmark, not least with regard to security,” he said.

Denmark and Sweden have found themselves in the international spotlight in recent weeks following protests where the Quran, the Islamic holy book, has been damaged or burned.

In a separate statement on Sunday, Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson said he had been in close contact with his Danish counterpart Mette Frederiksen, and that a similar process was already under way in Sweden.

“We have also started to analyse the legal situation already … in order to consider measures to strengthen our national security and the security of Swedes in Sweden and around the world,” Kristersson said in a post to Instagram.

Outrage in Muslim countries

This month, far-right activists have carried out a number of public burnings of Islam’s holy book in front of the Iraqi, Egyptian, and Turkish embassies in the Danish capital.

On Monday, two members of the ultra-nationalist Danish Patriots stomped on a copy of the Quran and set it alight in a tin foil tray next to an Iraqi flag.

Earlier this month in Sweden, an Iraqi citizen living in the country, Salwan Momika, 37, stomped on the holy book and set several pages alight.

The public burnings in the Scandinavian countries have sparked widespread outrage across Muslim countries, with Saudi Arabia, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, Iran, Morocco, Qatar and Yemen lodging protests in response.

Sweden and Denmark have said they deplore the burning of the Koran but cannot prevent it under their rules protecting freedom of expression.

The United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC) earlier this month approved a resolution on religious hatred and bigotry following several burnings.

Pakistan and other Organisation of Islamic Cooperation countries backed the motion, along with a number of non-Muslim majority countries including India and Vietnam. The United States and the European Union opposed the resolution on the grounds it interfered with freedom of expression.

In his statement, Rasmussen added that whatever measure was taken “must of course be done within the framework of the constitutionally protected freedom of expression and in a manner that does not change the fact that freedom of expression in Denmark has very broad scope”.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

I'll go ahead and say "just copy the German laws". §166 StGB:

Revilement of religious faiths and religious and ideological communities

  1. Whoever publicly or by disseminating content (section 11 (3)) reviles the religion or ideology^1^ of others in a manner suited to causing a disturbance of the public peace incurs a penalty of imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years or a fine.
  2. Whoever publicly or by disseminating content (section 11 (3)) reviles a church or other religious or ideological^1^ community in Germany or its institutions or customs in a manner suited to causing a disturbance of the public peace incurs the same penalty.

Historically speaking that section has been introduced after the 30 year war, when Lutherans and Catholics had it out for each other. It's why you don't see Lutherans calling Catholics Idolaters any more even though they still pray to Mary.

Apostasy, blasphemy, also religious critique etc. are all perfectly fine but if you're using religion as a vector of insult to disturb the public peace that's crossing the line. Burn all the Qurans you want just don't make a show out of it. Or print "The Quran, the holy Quran" on rolls of toilet paper and send them to public TV stations and mosques (actually happened).


^1^ "ideology" there is an iffy translation, what is meant is Weltanschauung. Say, Daoism is not a religion in the usual (German/western) sense but definitely a philosophy with deep epistemology and thus qualifies. So is Humanism.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

One problem with this sort of law is that it only ever targets minority religious opinions. You'd never see a priest get prosecuted for telling atheists they deserve to burn in hell, for example.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The atheists could file a complaint and force the issue.

If not then there's a larger problem with society.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ideally it would work that way. The problem is that it never has worked that way.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

That's exactly what conservatism is: the effort to conserve privilege and impunity.

Rights for me, but not for thee.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

A German saying applies there: Where there's no complainant, there's no judge.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

My friend sadly this won't involve the burning of religious books. You can even do it live or on tv. If you insult the religion or their believers or provoke them with something else, you could use § 166 StGB. For example something like "all muslims should burn like this book" or "the islam is straight from hell, so we burn it...". § 130 StGB or § 185 StGB won't help you either. And as long as he owns the book you can't use § 303 StGB.

So just the burning could happen in Germany, too.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Sure, mere burning, even public, won't qualify especially as it could be a Muslim properly disposing of a damaged Quran (the general rule of thumb is "give it a proper burial", that includes burning).

But I don't think any of those troublesome burnings happen without whoever is doing it providing context as to why they're doing it which then enables §166 as evidenced by, well, the public peace being disturbed by their actions.

It could be that those people then switch to burning Qurans silently -- yes that's allowed in Germany, even in public, even if you're a known opponent of Islam. But silent protests are also way less likely to incite public ire, more easy to overlook, and kinda hard to rally people with, even as a third person (unless you yourself want to be found guilty of §166). Sure Muslims might be miffed but the law is there to protect the public peace, not religious sentiment, and also silent burnings are sooo easy to counter: "Thank you, brother, for disposing of the Quran according to proper tradition". The perpetrator might want to object but then, well, §166.

Or, differently put: You don't see Quran burnings in Germany.


Lastly, state and municipal ordinances regarding open fires and the environment still apply. While state-level stuff should be easy to comply with (largely fire safety, nature reserves, forests etc), my municipality has a "smoke must not disturb the public" kind of ordinance and if you're burning something in a busy shopping area they might just interpret that one a bit more strictly than when making a campfire on the beach. Be ready for engaged bureaucrats (heh) asking questions about the chemical makeup of the ink and glue used in the book so they can tell whether you created a risk to public health.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Damn, up to 3 years for that is way too harsh.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's practically impossible to get sentenced to the maximum unless you really are trying to. The toilet paper Quran guy got one year probation, and the guy had previous offences, was unregenerate, and, quote the judge, "considerably infatuated". You have to leave room in the sentencing structure for recalcitrant repeat offenders, people who behead cows in Hindu temples, suchlike. The vast, vast majority of cases are dealt with by fines (standard German rate of one day of prison equals one day of disposable income for judgements under a year).

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Up to 3 years is a bit extreme for that